I was surprised while checking my email this morning when I found a comment had been made on this post made nearly 4 years ago. I invite you all to take a moment and read the post and Anonymous' comment because that is where whe shall lead off for today's post.
First of all, thank you for the comment, Mr./Ms. Anonymous. I'm being absolutely serious, I'm glad to hear what others have to say. That, and your comment gave me a chance to go back and get into details about that post/the story behind it and the themes that I should have discussed then, but was still a lazy college student.
Now, we had no intentions of arriving so late for our trip to JJ, but Thursday nights were crazy busy at that point - we had BSU (Baptist Student Union) meetings on Thursdays at 7, and that year I was in charge of putting together the service, so by the time it was over, we had gotten everyone together, and were able to leave it was already 9. Add to that the mentioned wrong turn (made by yours truly) and we were way later than we wanted to be. The reason we never ordered tickets is because they said that that particular night was free for college students, and (being a college student) I couldn't afford to go any other time. Anyway, when we got there, we talked to a very nice woman who we asked if we would be able to get these free college tickets for another night, but she was unable to do that for us. So yes, we left dejected and sad, but I understand completely that you don't want people staying up so late night after night.
Here's the rub though. If a church is honestly as concerned about saving peoples' souls, why should they have to order tickets in advance? Why in the world do you want people to have to pay in order for you to have the chance to witness to them? I'm not trying to be funny, I honestly don't understand. I know that it costs a ton of money to put on the project each year, but why be willing to spend so much money to save people if you can only save those who can afford to come? Wouldn't that money and volunteer time be better off spent going to a Christian soup kitchen so that not only can you be a witness during service, but you are also meeting people where they need assistance most?
Moving on, I actually can use the Word of God to substantiate my claims. Can you? You see, the book of Revelation (no "s" for those of you who say Revelations - that annoys me, I'm a stickler for that) is what we call metaphorical and is therefore open to much interpretation. I daresay that while Mr./Ms. Anonymous thinks that I have "heard someone in a position of importance" tell me what to believe about JJ/Revelation, I must refer you back two weeks to my post about Sunday School and learning your beliefs/theology. I can ask the same of you though, have you read any books or articles for both sides of this particular argument? I know I have. In fact, I used to be a firm believer in pre-millenial, pre-tribulation theology, but then through my own studies and thought I realized that the God that Jesus Christ preaches about and John had his Revelation about is one of love and forgiveness. Sure there are stories of his wrath and judgement, but after Christ brought in the new law, I don't ever find him mentioning God plucking away his "favorites" and leaving the rest of the world to die in horrible twisted ways without a chance of redemption.
The comment also mentions that it is one thing to say something "in love" and another to truly say something in love. So in love, may I ask how many of those people that you "lead to Christ" during JJ you/your church actually actively disciples? If I remember correctly from previous experiences there, when the trip was over, we were brought into a prayer tent, a prayer was said, and those who accepted Christ were given a Bible and sent on their way. Maybe I'm missing something, but discipleship is an integral part in anyone's relationship with God and just telling someont tha tthey are "saved" and then letting them out on their way doesn't seem to me like discipleship and leaves these brand new Christians with no idea as to actually what they believe aside from that they are now saved from a place called Hell (which they don't really know much about).
As to the question about "when was the last time I lead [sic] someone to Christ," I can honestly (and happily) say never. I don't save people or "bring them to Christ," God alone does that. But, I do spend time each day trying to follow Christ's commandments to love everyone (that includes homosexuals and those who have abortions - a part of JJ that truly irks me, but is way too big to go into here) and to love God. If that provides me the opportunity to talk about God (like every Friday - right here on your favorite blog channel), then I will gladly discuss my faith with anyone. I don't go out of my way to walk up to strangers and ask them if they know Jesus because really, without any sort of context or relationship with that person, why should they believe anything you say about your God and your faith?
Aso for what passion the world sees in me... well, that's a toughie... maybe something that I spent 4 years studying in college and just spent the past 5 pages (at least in my little notebook it was 5) talking about religion, I'd have to say that I'm quite passionate about the subject. In fact, I'm pretty passionate about all the things I write about here - that's why I do it.
Thank you again Mr./Ms. Anonymous for your comments, I enjoyed writing back.
Oh crap, I almost forgot - Scare Tactics as a way to salvation has always seemed sketchy to me and not just because of the tent experience that I mentioned earlier, but mainly because it feels kind of deceptive. A decision made under any major duress, particularly that of fear, isn't a very logical though. I ask: if someone is in a terrifying position (make one up, my brain is fried) and their way out is by denying their faith, would you say that they ever had that faith to begin with? Shouldn't the same ring true for the opposite situation? Does someone really and truly believe something if they are pressured or scared into saying that they do? I honestly don't think so. That, in a nutshell (probably pistachio), is why I don't really like or agree with using fear for salvation.
P.S. No Soapbox Saturday this week, I think I used it all up today, sorry.
First of all, thank you for the comment, Mr./Ms. Anonymous. I'm being absolutely serious, I'm glad to hear what others have to say. That, and your comment gave me a chance to go back and get into details about that post/the story behind it and the themes that I should have discussed then, but was still a lazy college student.
Now, we had no intentions of arriving so late for our trip to JJ, but Thursday nights were crazy busy at that point - we had BSU (Baptist Student Union) meetings on Thursdays at 7, and that year I was in charge of putting together the service, so by the time it was over, we had gotten everyone together, and were able to leave it was already 9. Add to that the mentioned wrong turn (made by yours truly) and we were way later than we wanted to be. The reason we never ordered tickets is because they said that that particular night was free for college students, and (being a college student) I couldn't afford to go any other time. Anyway, when we got there, we talked to a very nice woman who we asked if we would be able to get these free college tickets for another night, but she was unable to do that for us. So yes, we left dejected and sad, but I understand completely that you don't want people staying up so late night after night.
Here's the rub though. If a church is honestly as concerned about saving peoples' souls, why should they have to order tickets in advance? Why in the world do you want people to have to pay in order for you to have the chance to witness to them? I'm not trying to be funny, I honestly don't understand. I know that it costs a ton of money to put on the project each year, but why be willing to spend so much money to save people if you can only save those who can afford to come? Wouldn't that money and volunteer time be better off spent going to a Christian soup kitchen so that not only can you be a witness during service, but you are also meeting people where they need assistance most?
Moving on, I actually can use the Word of God to substantiate my claims. Can you? You see, the book of Revelation (no "s" for those of you who say Revelations - that annoys me, I'm a stickler for that) is what we call metaphorical and is therefore open to much interpretation. I daresay that while Mr./Ms. Anonymous thinks that I have "heard someone in a position of importance" tell me what to believe about JJ/Revelation, I must refer you back two weeks to my post about Sunday School and learning your beliefs/theology. I can ask the same of you though, have you read any books or articles for both sides of this particular argument? I know I have. In fact, I used to be a firm believer in pre-millenial, pre-tribulation theology, but then through my own studies and thought I realized that the God that Jesus Christ preaches about and John had his Revelation about is one of love and forgiveness. Sure there are stories of his wrath and judgement, but after Christ brought in the new law, I don't ever find him mentioning God plucking away his "favorites" and leaving the rest of the world to die in horrible twisted ways without a chance of redemption.
The comment also mentions that it is one thing to say something "in love" and another to truly say something in love. So in love, may I ask how many of those people that you "lead to Christ" during JJ you/your church actually actively disciples? If I remember correctly from previous experiences there, when the trip was over, we were brought into a prayer tent, a prayer was said, and those who accepted Christ were given a Bible and sent on their way. Maybe I'm missing something, but discipleship is an integral part in anyone's relationship with God and just telling someont tha tthey are "saved" and then letting them out on their way doesn't seem to me like discipleship and leaves these brand new Christians with no idea as to actually what they believe aside from that they are now saved from a place called Hell (which they don't really know much about).
As to the question about "when was the last time I lead [sic] someone to Christ," I can honestly (and happily) say never. I don't save people or "bring them to Christ," God alone does that. But, I do spend time each day trying to follow Christ's commandments to love everyone (that includes homosexuals and those who have abortions - a part of JJ that truly irks me, but is way too big to go into here) and to love God. If that provides me the opportunity to talk about God (like every Friday - right here on your favorite blog channel), then I will gladly discuss my faith with anyone. I don't go out of my way to walk up to strangers and ask them if they know Jesus because really, without any sort of context or relationship with that person, why should they believe anything you say about your God and your faith?
Aso for what passion the world sees in me... well, that's a toughie... maybe something that I spent 4 years studying in college and just spent the past 5 pages (at least in my little notebook it was 5) talking about religion, I'd have to say that I'm quite passionate about the subject. In fact, I'm pretty passionate about all the things I write about here - that's why I do it.
Thank you again Mr./Ms. Anonymous for your comments, I enjoyed writing back.
Oh crap, I almost forgot - Scare Tactics as a way to salvation has always seemed sketchy to me and not just because of the tent experience that I mentioned earlier, but mainly because it feels kind of deceptive. A decision made under any major duress, particularly that of fear, isn't a very logical though. I ask: if someone is in a terrifying position (make one up, my brain is fried) and their way out is by denying their faith, would you say that they ever had that faith to begin with? Shouldn't the same ring true for the opposite situation? Does someone really and truly believe something if they are pressured or scared into saying that they do? I honestly don't think so. That, in a nutshell (probably pistachio), is why I don't really like or agree with using fear for salvation.
P.S. No Soapbox Saturday this week, I think I used it all up today, sorry.
1 comment:
I appreciate your well thought out response and agree completely about using fear. By the way, Jesus never used fear, he always met folks where they were and invited them to "follow Him"!
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